Jonathan Mok: How should the Netanyahu speech be interpreted?

Nigel Ashton: Beyond uttering the words ‘Palestinian state’ Netanyahu has not yet conceded the creation of an entity which would have genuine sovereignty. His concept of ‘demilitarisation’ is so wide ranging that any Palestinian state created under it could not be deemed to have full control over its territory and would therefore not be sovereign. Nevertheless, he has at least conceded that peace negotiations cannot proceed on the basis of his opening position which amounted to little more than a form of economic autonomy. So there has at least been some movement in his position even if so far this is limited.

JM: It appears that the Arab world has been silent in response to Bibi’s speech. How do you perceive the apparent lack of interest?

NA: I think Arab leaders are allowing the United States to make the running at present in negotiations with Israel. The Arab peace plan is on the table and I am sure that if genuine negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians resumed Egypt and Jordan would be prepared to play their part in supporting the process.

JM: What do you think about Israel’s continuing exclusion of Hamas in peace negotiations?

NA: For nearly three decades, Israel refused to deal with the PLO and termed it a terrorist organisation. Eventually it did negotiate with the organisation so these things are not set in stone. Having said that, negotiations for a final settlement with Israel as opposed to a truce would effectively contravene the Hamas charter so there would have to be considerable movement on both sides before it would be possible to bring Hamas within the framework of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. Even before we can reach that stage, though, means have to be found of repairing the Fatah-Hamas schism which will be a considerable challenge.

JM: Some of the demands in the speech have been listed by other Israeli leaders, including Olmert, Sharon and Peres. The demands include Jerusalem as the permanent capital of Israel and Palestinian abandonment of the right of return. Would it be wise for Abbas to agree with the demands in order to speed up the peace negotiations with Israel?

NA: I think Netanyahu would be astounded if Abbas agreed to these conditions, particularly those in relation to Jerusalem and the right of return. They are aimed at Netanyahu’s domestic constituency and not at the Palestinian leadership. If serious negotiations begin, these issues will inevitably have to be addressed. There is no way the Palestinian leadership can be expected to concede them in advance.

JM: With the growing divide between the United States and Israel, what will be the role of other negotation partners, such as the EU?

NA: The role of other negotiating partners will continue to be insignificant. I don’t perceive a growing US-Israeli divide. What we have is an administration which for the first time in a decade is taking the question of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict seriously. It’s inevitable when that happens that it will tend to put pressure on Israel to shift its position. That’s what has happened during previous phases of negotiation, most notably during Clinton’s second term in the late 1990s.

JM: Finally, how likely is it that there will there be an indepenent Palestinian state under the Obama administration?

NA: The obstacles are considerable. It will need a remarkably favourable combination of circumstances for this to happen within the next eight years, never mind four. History does not lead one to be optimistic since this conflict has proven remarkably intractable. The best one can say is that there is more of a window of opportunity now than there has been at any point during the last decade.

Jonathan Mok: Why and when did you get interested in the life of King Hussein?

Nigel Ashton: I’ve been interested in King Hussein ever since I was a PhD student back in the 1980s working on British and American policy in the Middle East during the Suez crisis. I was fascinated from an early stage by the way the King successfully negotiated a series of dangerous challenges to his position and the way in which he managed his relations with other powers in the region.

After King Hussein died in February 1999, I felt it was a good time to start researching a biography of him. Up to that point there had been no full biography written with the benefit of access to his papers and interviews with his close friends, family members, and confidants. Thereafter I made more than a dozen trips to Jordan between 1999 and 2007, carrying out a range of interviews with former political leaders and his close family members, including his wife Queen Noor and his eldest son, King Abdullah of Jordan.

Jonathan: King Hussein seemed never to employ anti-Semitic rhetoric to condemn the Israeli occupation and Jewish lobby in the United States. In fact, he was believed to be good terms with leaders such as Golda Meir and Yitzhak Rabin. How did the King view Jews and the Jewish state?

Nigel: As far as King Hussein was concerned, the first crucial step that had to be made before one could contemplate making peace was to empathize with those on the other side of the conflict. He felt that he had to show that he understood and appreciated the historical tragedy of the Jewish people in all its parts before peace would be possible. His strategy to achieve this goal involved the offering of endless reassurance to Israelis

Perhaps the best example of this came in March 1997 when, after a Jordanian soldier had gone mad and killed several Israeli schoolgirls on a field trip at Baqoura on the border between Israel and Jordan, the King flew to Israel and personally visited the bereaved families. His gesture of kneeling before them and offering his personal condolences had a profound effect in Israel, turning a tragedy into an event which helped cement relations between the two states. So, King Hussein was aware of the hopes and fears of Israelis and did his best to reassure them.

Jonathan: How did King Hussein influence his son, King Abdullah?

Nigel: I would say that [King Abdullah] has inherited much of his father’s shrewd grasp as to how to navigate in troubled political waters. He has built on his father’s close relations with the United States, but made sure that he has also remained close to the Arab middle ground on key issues such as the peace process with Israel.

King Abdullah has also improved relations with Saudi Arabia, which had been strained during the final years of King Hussein’s reign. He has been more inclined to focus his attention on key domestic problems as well, especially economic and administrative development, which his father tended to delegate to others. So, while the two monarchs have much in common, King Abdullah has inevitably brought a fresh perspective to some key issues.

Jonathan: While King Hussein was well-recognized for his diplomatic successes, he was also criticized for failing to modernize the country. Can we talk more about that?

Nigel: Hussein himself would have seen the achievement of peace with Israel as his greatest achievement. But, in the final three years of his life, he was already becoming frustrated at what he saw as the failure to translate this into a broader peace in the region. Although he blamed all parties for the failure, he was particularly critical of the role of the then Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu whom he believed had allowed the chance for a comprehensive peace, pursued by Yitzhak Rabin, to slip away.

From 1989 onwards the King pursued a program of domestic liberalization which opened the political system up to the opposition. However, this process had largely halted by the mid-1990s. The irony was that the making of peace with Israel, which was domestically unpopular, contributed to the slow down in domestic political reform. Despite this, King Hussein was certainly the most benevolent, open and fair-minded Arab leader of his generation. He dealt with opposition more by trying to co-opt it, or channel it, rather than by simply repressing it.

Jonathan: Finally, in your opinion, what lessons Arab leaders can take from the late King Hussein?

Nigel: I think the key lesson is the need for dialogue. Across the decades from the early 1960s when the King began to talk covertly to Israeli representatives he sought to resolve the problems of the region through debate, discussion and dialogue. Of course, this approach involved inevitable frustrations. In the aftermath of the 1967 war, when the King pressed hard for a broader peace settlement, his approach did not find a receptive audience in the region. But he persisted in his efforts which eventually bore fruit in the shape of the Jordanian-Israeli peace Treaty in the 1994.

The second lesson is how to deal with political opponents. For sure, the King’s regime had authoritarian aspects, but he was notoriously lenient in his treatment of political opponents, even those who had plotted against his person and his throne.

The final lesson concerns the exercise of power. Hussein understood that Jordan was a weak state in terms of its military and economic resources. But he consistently exercised disproportionate influence both through his moral authority and his subtle grasp of the hopes and fears of others. Empathy was ultimately his most useful tool in regional politics.

Rana Husseini, whom I first interviewed in 2007, is an investigative reporter and world-famous campaigner against the cruel phenomenon known as honour killing – both in Jordan and beyond. Her book, Murder in the Name of Honour, recently sold out upon its launch in Amman. Before the launch, I sat down with Rana to talk about everything from local politics to Orientalist imagery.

Natalia: So, this book was a real labour of love!

Rana: Yes. I wanted to get this one just right. I wasn’t about to let anyone sensationalize the subject matter. Thankfully, Oneworld Publications worked out really well for me and my agent, because they understood where we were coming from.

N: The cover looks great, by the way. It’s so different from the usual covers that are used on books about this region.

R: I told them right away, I wouldn’t have any seductive, veiled women on the cover! And no camels, and no sand and no menacing men in traditional clothing either! I wasn’t going to play into any of the stereotypes.

N: I meant to tell you, I have found some people to be strangely uncomfortable with the idea of an Arab woman speaking out about issues such as honour killing. It’s like they want all this phenomenon to be filtered exclusively through Western eyes.

R: Well, you can’t please everyone all the time. If we worried about what people said 24/7, we would get nothing done. There would be no progress.

When you speak about this mistrust, I can’t help but think of the Norma Khouri nonsense [Norma Khouri, real name Norma Bagain Teliopoulos, released a fraudulent "memoir" on honour killing in Jordan - a book that deal a blow to the local anti-honour killing cause]. There are a lot of people out there who still believe the lies that Norma Khouri spread about Jordan. And they don’t want those lies to be challenged.

You know, I’ve been attacked by many different people over the years. I’ve even been accused of being a government agent. This issue of honour killing has been politicized, which is why this happens. But you need to keep going, because there are women who need help.

N: Speaking of help, what are some of your goals for the book?

R: I want this book to save lives. Women in vulnerable situations will hopefully read it and see how they can protect themselves. There can be warning signs, and I illustrate many of them when talking about specific incidents. And we need to keep spreading awareness and pressuring global society to do more about this issue. God created us, and God takes us, and there is nothing defensible about honour crime when you think about it like that. More and more people must realize this.

N: Karim Kawar, Jordan’s former Ambassador to the United States, told some years ago that one of the central problems with honour killing is how certain parties view them as a case of “the family has suffered enough, so we should not be punishing them harshly.” Knowing what I know about life in Jordan, this certainly rang true. What do you think about it?

R: Based on how a lawyer presents the case, it could arouse sympathy for the killer and the family that encouraged the killer. In Jordan, we are making headway on this issue. The decision can be appealed, and I would stress that these attitudes are changing. People now discuss honour crime very openly. This wasn’t the case when I started out.

N: And what about the “it’s their culture” argument? I’ve had highly educated people say that to me when honour killing is brought up, as in “it’s their culture, you can’t change it, you’re a bigot for even thinking about it in these terms.”

R: First of all, I would say to you – violence against women is part of global culture. It’s not isolated to any religion, class or country. However, some societies develop quicker than others and have better mechanisms for coping with it and discouraging it, and people there can’t ignore the struggle going on around the corner.

We need to remember that we are all human beings, and honour crime goes against human dignity. Ending this violence means a better world for everyone.

The Amman launch for Murder in the Name of Honour had the atmosphere of a county fair. There were laughing children, balloons, lemonade. Rana sat in the center of it all, and glowed with accomplishment. She has much to glow about. The fight isn’t over, and the troops aren’t going anywhere.

Dan Shvartsman: What are the big themes you take out of the Gaza conflict, and the initial days of the aftermath?

Dr. Bruce Maddy-Weitzman: This latest round is over. Just the way the (2nd) Lebanon War ended in summer of 2006, and since then the ceasefire has held almost perfectly, so too in this case I think that it’s fairly likely that we won’t see another round like we just saw any time soon.

What did each side achieve from this? Israel went into this determined not only to end the rocket fire, but to also change the “rules of the game”. That “Hamas shoots rockets, we shoot back,” and this tit-for-tat doesn’t change Hamas’s behavior. Beyond that, I think there was also a general desire for Israel to strengthen its deterrent posture. There was a feeling here that Israel’s deterrent posture over the last years has weakened.

I think a central goal of this operation was to send a clear message to the rest of the region and the world that it wasn’t going to allow an Iranian client-state to develop on its borders.

Hamas turned out to be far weaker than anticipated. In that regard, Israel has significantly improved its deterrent posture. It’s not just that they hit them hard, but also the incorporation of the diplomatic elements. At least on paper, the support for a change in the strategic parameters governing the Gaza area, the support for Israel’s desires is considerable. The French are patrolling off the shores of Gaza, the Americans signed a memorandum of understanding, they’re training Egyptian troops dealing with smuggling, they’re talking about interdicting Iranian ships in the Gulf of Aden.

The Egyptian participation in this sort of Western framework is a gain for Israel as well. It remains to be seen whether this framework will have real teeth and do what it’s supposed to do. So from that regard, one can say that Israel’s achievements in this operation were considerable.

They came at costs, obviously. Israel’s image has been damaged to a considerable extent among public opinion. There’s no question that more hate towards Israel will have been generated by this operation, which doesn’t bode well if you talk about the need for a long-term reconciliation.

You can even suggest the possibility that radical forces might become even stronger, particularly among Palestinians; there’s a possibility of splintering off from Hamas to represent even more Islamist, jihadi, Bin Laden-type radical views, which would make Hamas look like a positively moderate force in comparison.

Dan: How does Hamas come out of this?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: Hamas has always had a number of different viewpoints within it. Not in ideological terms, on that they’re united. In terms of how one achieves their goals, there have been different trends. One can point to pragmatic kinds of thinking, adapting to particular circumstances.

It’s clear that there were sharp differences of opinion within Hamas over the decision to tear up the ceasefire and goad Israel into an attack, which Hamas believed was going to be beneficial – that an improved set of arrangements would be established. Clearly, that wasn’t the case; they paid a horrific price.

Hamas is likely to demonstrate a greater degree of pragmatism, to seek accommodations, to present some kind of common front with Mahmoud Abbas, so that they can then move on and say, “this is how we’re going to deal with the opening of the crossing points, the passages to ease the siege.” This is an immediate issue for Hamas, so they can engage in reconstruction, and get legitimized as an interlocutor by the international community.

It is possible that they will achieve that over time, that more and more we’ll hear voices in the West: “You need to engage in dialogue. They’re an important force. You can’t just ignore them. You have to find ways.” And that’s a double-edged sword. By Hamas engaging, they may have to modify their behavior in ways which eventually threaten to clash with their principles. On the other hand, it means that they may be getting legitimized in a way that’s to their benefit, without them giving things up.

Dan: In the whole region, a lot of interesting things came up. What’s the significance of Syria’s statements in light of the indirect negotiations with Israel before the war?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: I was thinking about that too. On the face of it, a Syrian-Israeli agreement is much easier to achieve than a Palestinian-Israeli agreement. It’s straightforward, you deal with sovereign countries; it’s not an existential matter, per se. It’s not an inter-communal conflict on core ideological matters.

But Bashar Assad, I think, is going to be reluctant to pay the price that he has to pay for a peace treaty, which is shifting his alliance orientation: moving out of the Iranian radical camp and moving into the Western camp. I don’t think he wants to do that, I think he wants to have both: to maintain his connections with Palestinian and Lebanese forces, to maintain his connections with Iran, and to have better ties with the West, and he was trying to work through Turkey to get that.

But his militancy on these matters is very off-putting. I think it’s probably less likely also that the new Israeli government will want to pick up where the Olmert government left off. So I think we’ll probably again see a hiatus in the Israeli-Syrian track. Especially since the Turkish President has gone and alienated the Israeli political class with his behavior.

Dan: And that’s another country interesting effect of the war, Turkey’s sudden change of heart on Israel. Do you view that as a serious blow to the relationship?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: It’s problematic. The Israeli-Turkish relationship is based on common strategic interests. The forces in Turkey that are the guardians of those strategic interests are still there.

Politically, of course, the elected leadership is an Islamist party and an Islamist government, which has a different set of considerations. And certainly a significant segment of public opinion in Turkey identified strongly with the Palestinians and is very hostile towards Israel, and we saw that during the war. This is a cause for concern. Turkey’s stance is going to be watched very, very closely.

But in any case, it’s not at all clear that the new Israeli government will give the Syrian-Israeli track a priority. I’m not so sure the Americans are going to be so keen on renewing that track either, even though there’s been a lot of advice in Washington that’s said, “go for the Syrian-Israeli track right away, because it’s more doable.” Well, I’m not sure it is.

Dan: Are you not sure because of the new Gaza conflict and the issues that were raised now? Or do you think it was the same before?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: I was skeptical before. I’m more skeptical now. And I think because the Israeli government is about to change, that also is going to play a role here.

Now, if the Americans do get clear signals from the Syrians that they want to play, that they want this to go forward, which is very possible…everybody’s waiting for Obama. Bashar Assad’s going to want to find out where does Obama stand on this. And if he does send the appropriate signals, that will get America’s attention. And that in turn will get Israel’s attention.

Dan: What’s the significance on a broader scale that Israel, even before the war, was leaning towards Netanyahu? What does it say about the broader future prospects of Israel and peace if they’re swinging to the right?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: You’re right about Israeli public opinion becoming more right wing, and it’s something that’s been true over the last eight years. And yet, when you ask people how they outline a settlement, you’ll find a solid majority of public opinion is in favor of a two-state solution, in favor of a centrist kind of solution, not a right wing solution. There is a consensus on that.

There’s less consensus in Israel about the kind of hard steps that Israel would have to take to help the dynamics of a diplomatic effort, particularly on settlement matters. Israelis underestimate the symbolic effect that settlement expansion has on public opinion on the other side, and also on the opinion of leadership on the other side. Continuous settlement building is seen as an example of massive Israeli bad faith. And Israelis don’t appreciate that to a sufficient degree.

With regard to the likely Netanyahu government, that also depends on the nature of his coalition. It seems very likely to me that Ehud Barak will be his Defense Minister, which means the Labor party is in the coalition.

Which means you’re talking about a center-right government, but not a right wing government. That’s a big difference. It means you have a government that can engage and will engage with Washington. Netanyahu clearly will not want to be in open confrontation with Washington. He will try to balance off the competing domestic political forces and the need to be a statesman. And that’s why Barak will be very important for him to have, and Labor.

Dan: What do you view as the likely shifts on Iran’s status? It almost seems unrelated to what just happened, but obviously it’s the elephant in the room.

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: It’s very related. I don’t know. Clearly, the U.S. administration is going to see if it can critically, and constructively, and robustly engage Iran on this matter. I think the fact that Dennis Ross has been appointed to be the point man on that, I think that’s an interesting choice, actually.

I know that Ross is a proponent of this sort of approach, robust engagement. Which means, find out what the Iranians are thinking, see what you can do, but also make sure that you have sticks as well as carrots. I think the fact that he knows the Israelis well, and the Israeli thinking well, will be an asset perhaps, to make sure the Americans understand where the Israelis are, and the Israelis understand where the Americans are.

But I don’t know where it’s going to go, and a lot of it depends on internal Iranian things, which I don’t have a good enough sense of. There’s always been a broad consensus in Iran that Iran should be a nuclear power. But that doesn’t mean that everybody’s in agreement on the path to get there, the timing, and how to respond to particular international pressures or incentives. It remains to be seen.

Dan: Would you say the same thing about the new Obama administration’s effect on the region, that it remains to be seen?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: I think everybody expects the Americans to take a higher profile on the Israeli-Palestinian, or Arab-Israeli tracks. Nobody doubted that they would be intimately involved with the Iranian matter, and how much continuity and how much change there will be remains to be seen.

There’s a lot of expectation out there for Obama. And undoubtedly it’s exaggerated, which can lead to disappointment. But it seems to me that a lot of people in this region understand that, and want America to play a positive role here.

Dan: On both sides.

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: Yes, absolutely. The trick for the Obama Administration will be translating that desire and good will into something that makes sense for the regional actors, and makes sense for America’s interests. Big concepts, but then you have to have incremental steps. This is how things are done.

Then maybe you can look around in 2-3 years and say, “Wow, things have really moved.” As opposed to a sudden breakthrough on these issues, which are close to being intractable – but they need attention. And one hopes that they’ll receive the right kind of attention.

Dan: What do you think the overall trend in the region is, among all the different issues? Is it a positive one with incremental steps? Or will it be mostly disappointment?

Dr. Maddy-Weitzman: I think that there are some opportunities there for incremental improvement. As I said, I think that Hamas has been humbled by what happened, and that’s to the good. They’ve been taken off their high horse, even if they haven’t been crushed.

Obviously, peace isn’t around the corner. The Palestinian state-building project of the 1990s was a failure, and that’s one of the reasons why the peace process failed. What we have now are two de facto Palestinian entities, and they’re going to have to work mightily to bring a semblance of unity to their own camp. It’s essential if there’s going to be any progress on the big political issues.

Peace isn’t breaking out, that’s for sure. Let’s hope that we can start taking some positive steps, some incremental steps, and start repairing the damage that’s been caused over the last eight years.

The unabridged version of this interview is on Dan Shvartsman’s blog.

Jonathan Mok: What can you say about the latest Israeli assault against Hamas? Do you think that the Olmert government would like to send a signal to the Obama administration?

Ahron Bregman: The Israeli military operation in Gaza is not about sending a signal to the future Obama administration, but a response to a strong feeling that Hamas has overstepped the mark, by firing rockets into Israel. It is true that thus far there have been few casualties in Israel, but the rockets did disturb life and worryingly – from an Israeli point of view – Hamas obtained medium-range missiles that could reach major populated areas.

For now, Israel enjoys strong American support and it is unlikely that in the foreseen future Washington will stop Israel’s military operations. Like the Israelis, Washington regards Hamas as “the bad guys”.

Jonathan: The responses of various Arab states and Mahmoud Abbas are different this time. While they condemn the Israeli attack, they also blame Hamas for sparking the action. Do you see a new departure from the traditional responses of Arab leaders?

Ahron: Don’t forget that the Palestinian Authority and such countries as Egypt and Jordan regard Hamas as a threat to their own regimes. Egypt, in particular, is upset with Hamas after warning it time and again that the Israelis lose patience with rocket attacks on her towns and cities and that it would be better if Hamas stopped these actions before the Israelis hit back.

Jonathan: Will this Israeli operation be successful? Would it have failed if Gilad Shalit ends up being wounded or killed?

Ahron: The Israelis would have liked to see a different Gaza, where Hamas is not in power and no rockets are fired from there into Israel. Of course, the Israelis would have also liked to see Gilad Shalit released and returned to his family. But it would be difficult to topple Hamas and release Shalit. For now the aims of the IDF operation are limited, namely (in the words of Prime Minister Olmert) “to restore normal life and quiet to residents of the South who, for many years, have suffered from unceasing rocket and mortar fire and terrorism …”

The question, of course, is how this could be achieved? Well, the Israelis hope that by sending a horrifying message and hitting hard at the Gaza Strip, Hamas will eventually ask for a cease fire and when this is agreed upon Hamas will then hesitate to break it by firing again at Israel. Having said that, military campaigns have their own dynamics and it is difficult to predict, at this stage, how things might develop in the future.

Jonathan: Will it be Ehud Barak or Tzipi Livni who will benefit more if this Israeli attack is judged a success?

Ahron: As the minister in charge of the IDF, Ehud Barak supervises the military operation in Gaza. Thus, in the coming days – and we should remember that we are just before general election in Israel – Barak will be the most dominant politician on the Israeli scene.

If things go well then it may help him in the coming election (until recently polls predicted him and his Labour party a humiliating defeat). But if rockets keep landing and the general feeling in Israel being that it is losing the war, then the public will turn its anger and frustration at Barak and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni (Prime Minister Olmert is on the way out anyway) and the victor in the general election will probably be Benjamin Netanyahu.

Jonathan: What’s next for Israel and Hamas?

Ahron: In the end, after more blood and misery, the war will end with an indirect agreement between Hamas and Israel, similar in many ways to the deal reached last June.

Hamas will insist on a cessation of Israeli attacks on Gaza and on its people in the West Bank, a reopening of the Gaza border crossings for food and other supplies, and a release of Palestinian prisoners.

Israel will demand a halt to rocket, missile and mortar attacks on her towns and cities.

In an ideal world – and given that the military message Israel sent is fully understood by Hamas – the war should be stopped now. Alas, it is not an ideal world.

ArabComment: How do you think that Dubai will perform during the global financial crisis, and how will your operations be affected?

Ahli: Actually our operations have not been affected at all by the financial crisis in the world because we still have companies establishing at the Dubai Airport Free Zone and asking for office spaces for the region. I’ll give you an example: we have now more companies from Japan, who would like to establish their offices in Dubai, and our location is an ideal location for them because they want to shift their operations of selling their products to the United States, and shifting it to other new markets, so Middle East, Russia, India are new markets for the Japanese companies.

ArabComment: Would you say that you’re offering a respite from the current financial crisis and that Dubai is a kind of a safe haven?

Ahli: Absolutely, yes.

ArabComment: You recently announced high growth rates for 2008. What would you say were the main reasons behind these increased profits, and what would be your expectations for next year?

Ahli: Because Dubai being the hub for almost everything in the Middle East and for example for aviation, shipping, tourism, a business venue and an exhibition hub. That creates demand, for everything; demand in opening offices; demand for visiting companies, expanding trade relations with neighbouring states.

Also, Dubai itself is a perfect location for doing business, you can always establish your company or your business in one place and then go to all of the region. For example in South East Asia you can either establish your office in Hong Kong or Singapore and that is where your operation goes into that region.

And the government is looking into the future…so we have perfect vision from the government making sure that the businesses are continuing and establish projects, developments in the local market that creates jobs, businesses and adds more trade between Dubai and others. Also because we import everything into Dubai from the six continents, different markets, and then we re-export, so it makes us a gateway to a 1.8 billion consumers if you fly five hours from Dubai.

ArabComment: You said that re-exports are a big part of Dubai’s trade. Dubai has come under a lot of pressure recently for its trade relations with Iran. Is Iran, for the companies involved in the airport trade zone, a big destination for re-exports?

Ahli: Actually Iran is a big potential business opportunity for many different markets and Dubai has always been the gateway of Iran’s trade; whether it is airport, through the container ship; we have these wooden dhows that take different products to Iran, its faster and its cheaper. So many companies that come from lets say Switzerland, Germany, France, Japan and China, if they want to trade and sell their products into the Iranian market then Dubai is their gateway.

There hasn’t been any affected trade between United Arab Emirates and Iran, and we are in the end very close neighbours. There is also Iran has banks. The Iranian banks are operating in Dubai so foreign companies that want to trade, sell their products into Iran, then the financial transaction will be through their banks in Dubai, or in the UAE, which makes it very safe for them and investors.

ArabComment: You mentioned that the UK has one of the biggest presences in Dubai Airport Free Zone, are you also targeting Europe and is the Euro zone an important market for you?

Ahli: We target different international markets but we focus on the main ones. Such as North America, Europe, Japan and Australia which are the main markets. However, we are also very selective of the companies we work with. Not just any company can come and operate here due to the limits of space.

So from these main markets we also focus on individual countries. So in Europe the UK is our number one focus and is very important for us for many different reasons. Mainly because British companies if they come they establish their business for the long term. We want a long term partnership. We currently have 140 British companies out of 1.400 companies in total then this is quite a big share from just one market.

Then our next focus is the German market, followed by the Swiss and French markets. But then the rest of the European market is not very important for us but we don’t deny having them.

ArabComment: Is the limited space available going to impact the greater vision for Dubai Airport Free Zone and does this result in your selective policy for companies aiming to set up in Dubai Airport Free Zone?

Ahli: When we say we are very selective it is because it is important to have niche companies in different sectors. This is due to the fact that people think as we are by the airport that we only support the aviation sector but this is not the case.

So as we expand we always get niche industries and companies based in our facilities so that is why we have selected companies and that goes through our limited space as we expand. Which is why we are always nearly fully booked when we finish a new expansion plot.

Next year we will start with another building that will add another 32,000 sq meters of office space and then from 2011 to 2012 we will have a completion of a much bigger project and that will add 130,000 sq meters of office spaces. Then after that we won’t have any more space.

We are thinking from now of expanding our airport free zone at the next airport in Dubai, which is called Dubai World Central. This is the future second airport that Dubai needs, like London has Heathrow and Gatwick, so Dubai will eventually need two main airports. So we will have a free zone over there as well. Also, we are thinking of managing free zones around the world. So we won’t stop our visionary to where we are just located. So if there is a requirement of managing an airport free zone in a certain city, why not. We would take it into consideration or in partnership.

ArabComment: Dubai is not alone among cities in the UAE and GCC in attracting international companies or building free trade zones as they all try to diversify their economies away from energy. Who would you consider to be your biggest rivals in the region, and is it possible to accommodate all these aspiring countries?

Ahli: Alright I can tell you the truth; we do not have any competitors because we are the only successful airport free zone in the region and we have vast experience in managing such a free zone. There is only neighbouring emirate, Sharjah that has an airport free zone and none in the rest of the region.

Other countries may have many companies but they are not great names from companies around the world. The reason that companies, like Rolls Royce and Johnson and Johnson, want to establish their facilities in our free zone is because of the connectivity. They can operate in Dubai for the whole of the region, doing sales and marketing, finding sale agents and distributors and so on.

For these companies to establish themselves in Dubai it is easy and they can get on any Emirates flight or one of the 120 international airlines and go to any of the cities in the region and do business meeting and come back. So this is the reason why we really do not have any competitors.

ArabComment: Would you say that this is the biggest contributing factor to the success of Dubai Airport Free Zones?

Ahli: Absolutely.

ArabComment: Any final comments?

Ahli: For us it is important to get more British companies, because between Dubai and the UK there has always been a special relationship. We will make sure that these companies will prosper over the coming years and will benefit by being in the Dubai Airport Free Zones. Our facilities are world class and have excellent living conditions.

By Julian Walker and Oliver Pearce

The visiting celebrities were eager to talk about their experience at a workshop in Jordan’s SAE Institute, a media technology training institute, pointing out that the country has a lot of local talent just waiting to take off.

One SAE student later told me that he personally wasn’t impressed with the workshop at all, though I immediately wondered how much of the negativity stemmed from simple inertia: the lingering idea that nothing with artistic or entertainment value could possibly be created in Jordan, ever (the same student told me he despises the recent Jordanian film “Captain Abu Raed,” a ground-breaking movie I adored).

I have heard repeated statements that Jordan in particular is an “anti-intellectual” environment, as opposed to, say, Lebanon or Egypt. I asked Waleed Zuaiter, whose parents divide their time between Amman and Ramallah, what he thought about said claims of anti-intellectualism:

Waleed, who co-produces the New York Arab American Comedy Festival besides working as an actor, told me: “I don’t think there is anything “anti-intellectual” about Jordan at all. Amman doesn’t need to “import” culture, it is full of culture and history. When it comes to Comedy, which is an Art form as all the other Arts, I would recommend that Jordan not solely “import” comedy from the West, but to really focus on creating a home-grown practice and following where comedians and audiences can enjoy stand-up comedy in their own native language.”

Born in Sacramento, California, Waleed spent most of his childhood in Kuwait and, as a native Arabic speaker, highlights the importance of understanding a culture from within.

Maysoon Zayid, whose recent role in Adam Sandler’s “You Don’t Mess With the Zohan” has garnered much attention, is another native Arabic speaker, despite having grown up in New Jersey. It was refreshing to hear Maysoon speak about working with Adam Sandler at the press conference, because many of my earnest friends had quickly dismissed the film, which aims to poke fun at conflict in the Middle East, as racist clap-trap.

Maysoon, and others, argued that Adam Sandler was in fact very sensitive to the subject matter and wanted to make fun of both Jews and Arabs in a manner that was entertaining. Maysoon is a woman with agency, and then some, and she strikes you as a person you don’t want to piss off under any circumstances. The idea of her taking on a demeaning role seems ludicrous, all pious hand-wringing on the subject be damned.

When I asked Maysoon what’s next for her, she spoke of performing at the upcoming Democratic National Convention and working on another comedy project, “Little American Whore,” as well as translating said project into Arabic. Will the word “whore” be kept in the Arabic title? Of course it will.

And that’s the thing about Maysoon – she’s bawdy and fresh and brash. I’ve corresponded with her for an interview before, but seeing her in the flesh is a rare treat.

Interacting with Maysoon made me think of how many women in the entertainment industry are still expected to be not fully human, with sculpted hairdos and on-call stylists and the cool appeal of sirens. It is comedy, a genre generally overlooked by cultural gate-keepers in the world, which often allows more women to freely act out the livelier, messier sides of their actual lives.

Meanwhile, having remembered that Maysoon once spoke of being accused of anti-Semitism, I wondered if “Axis of Evil” Aron Kader, whom I last saw in Dubai, had ever encountered such accusations in his professional life. Aron said no, but he also mentioned that he knows where the sensitivity comes from.

In the U.S., it is very hard to have a rational debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. So hard, in fact, that it seems as though laughing about it may be the only way for all sides to start talking.

Meanwhile, Dean Obeidallah, “Axis of Evil” star and co-founder and co-producer of the New York Arab American Comedy Festival, noted that many people had told him that Jordanians do not laugh. He was pretty emphatic when he said that he didn’t believe this was the case. Jordanians laughed hysterically when Dean and Maysoon gave live comedy performances in Amman, for example.

I have to testify that one could hear said hysterical laughter from blocks away. The cats on the trash-bins perked up their ears, and the neighbourhood, lively by all standards, felt as though it was brimming with fizzy good energy.

It’s no wonder. Like Maysoon, Dean is incredibly funny, with precise timing and an impish smile. He also comes off as incredibly, disarmingly sincere. This was his second time in Amman and he spoke highly of its growth and development, even if the Ammanites’ practice of parking on the sidewalk left him bewildered (growth and development isn’t making those streets any wider).

When the inevitable question along the lines of “aren’t you afraid of becoming too mainstream?” sounded forth at the press conference, Dean grinned widely. On one hand, money for his projects is important, that much ought to be obvious to all, even the most radically anti-establishment among us. On the other hand, he spoke about the notion that there are plenty of generic comedians out there, and being an Arab-American comedian means that one cannot aspire to be generic, lest one loses one’s audience.

Waleed Zuaiter told my fellow journalist that the group’s talent “ does not end with being Arab.” The performances are not gimmicks that will simply lose their flavour once an even greater audience catches on.

Waleed struck me as the youngest of the group. I was shocked when he told me he was thirty-seven. He has an Arab Errol Flynn quality to him, something that Hollywood, in its infinite wisdom, has to take a closer look at.

We spoke about racism in the entertainment industry; I recalled the time that actor Kal Penn came to Duke while I was an undergrad, and sparked a pretty sobering discussion on what it means to be “too ethnic” in Hollywood. Waleed told me that he feels fortunate that he hasn’t experienced what Kal Penn spoke about directly. He said he just preferred to focus on the art – “art” is a word that gets bandied about with some ease, but coming from Waleed, you think its invocation to be genuine.

Interacting with this group makes you wonder what it would have been like to see George Carlin young, at the height of his potential. Wandering over to Aron Kader, I asked him to comment on Carlin’s recent passing, since I was aware of Aron being a fan.

“He was the greatest.”

Damn straight. And you may be too.

Each comedian profiled has their own angle on both the entertainment business and the experiences of Muslims in the United States. Maysoon Zayid talks about being a Palestinian-American Muslim woman who doesn’t cover her hair, a virgin, and a disabled person aspiring to become an actress.

Dean Obeidallah shares the story of how he initially stopped using his Arab last name when performing in the aftermath of 9/11, then had a change of heart and a change of direction.

Azhar Usman, who is shown praying in his dressing room at one point, discusses going through a conservative phase before realizing that his path in life ultimately lay elsewhere.

Many viewers will relate to Ahmed Ahmed’s anxiety in regards to air travel, except that in Ahmed Ahmed’s case there is the added “bonus” of traveling while Muslim and enduring extreme suspicion. And Tissa Hami’s account of enduring prejudice both from non-Muslims and Muslims (some of whom have told her that she is “going to hell”) is not exactly a laughing matter.

Yet, staying true to its subject matter, the special manages to be light-hearted as well. The featured jokes could probably make even David Horowitz laugh, or so I’d like to believe.

Prior to the premiere, I was given an opportunity to interview several of the comedians, and here is what we talked about:

Natalia: Can you tell me more about the PBS special?

Dean Obeidallah: The one-hour special is the brainchild of producer Glenn Baker who first approached us almost four years ago with the idea of shooting a documentary about Muslim and Arab-American comedians. The documentary begins with us performing before any of us had appeared on any major US TV networks. However, by the end of the documentary many of us had appeared on Comedy Central, ABC, CNN, NBC and on numerous other TV networks, so viewers get a chance to watch us move up the entertainment ladder.

Maysoon Zayid: I am so blessed to be involved in this project with such extraordinary talent, including my brother from another mother, Dean Obeidallah. Glen and Omar [Naim - the co-director] were invisible. They made it so easy for us. I’m amazed with the end product. Omar is truly genius. It’s funny. And no one gets shot. AND you get to see my Dad. That alone is worth TiVo-ing.

Natalia: What’s it like to be a Muslim American working in the entertainment industry in the year 2008?

Dean Obeidallah: The entertainment industry is very competitive and is a struggle for everyone, regardless of race or religion. [Being] an Arab-American comedian who talks about my heritage in my act, has set me apart from many other typical comedians because I have a point of view that has not been heard from too often in the past. In the last few years, the entertainment industry has increasingly been supportive of our comedy.

Maysoon Zayid: I don’t know. No, just kidding, I do. I find it very difficult not only being a Muslim but a disabled female Muslim who doesn’t fit the stereotype shown by mainstream media of what a Muslim woman should look and sound like. Nearly all of my experience comes from the entertainment side and I found that, once someone takes a chance on casting me, its been a great opportunity for people who know very little about my culture to learn. In those instances I’ve had a wonderful reception from the majority of my colleagues as well as the Muslim community itself. Oh and the Italian Christians love me too.

Natalia: What are your audiences like nowadays, do lots of Muslims come to see your shows? Are there Jews in the audience?

Dean Obeidallah: When I’m not traveling for shows, I’m in NYC performing nightly at the major comedy clubs so the audiences are a cross section of every race and religion. When we do the Middle Eastern themed shows then the audience is probably 60% Middle Eastern. I am fortunate to have supporters of all different backgrounds

Maysoon Zayid: I don’t make it a policy to check what religion my audience members are, so I cant answer that. Because its not really something I think about nor do I care. Religion is personal. It doesn’t matter to me what religion anyone in my audience is.

I do know for a fact however that I’ve had a Mormon in the audience because she happened to be my best friend.

Natalia: This is just a stab in the dark, but, as an American, I get the impression that there is this sense of discomfort between Muslim Americans and Jewish Americans, and I see comedy as something that has the long-term potential to repair this situation. Am I naive to think this way?

Maysoon Zayid: Please don’t use the word “stab” in the same sentence as “Muslim Americans” and “Jewish Americans.”

Dean Obeidallah: I truly believe that comedy can be used to foster understating between Jews, Muslims, Arabs, and [people of] all different backgrounds. In fact, I have toured colleges for four years in a show I co-created called “Stand up for Peace” with Jewish comedian Scott Blakeman. Our shows are generally co-sponsored by Arab, Jewish, and Muslim student groups.

The goal is to bring together people of different backgrounds and religions (especially Arabs/Muslims and Jewish-Americans), to foster understanding through laughter as well as to attract support for a peaceful, negotiated resolution to the Middle East conflict. I can promise you that our show is much more fun than the events featuring speakers on the extreme right who appear on college campuses with the goal of dividing people through their hate-filled rhetoric.

Natalia: “Axis of Evil” was a success in the Middle East . Would you say that this success is indicative of the way that Muslim American comedians are perceived in Muslim majority nations overall?

Dean Obeidallah: I actually didn’t go with the Axis guys for that tour. However, I have performed in the Middle East before on my own and am returning for shows in late May/early June with Ahmed Ahmed and Maz Jobrani.

Comedy does not have geographic barriers. The Internet, TV shows and films have brought the world closer together. I can also tell you that I learned that we have one big thing in common: Jokes about President Bush get big laughs both in the US and in the Middle East!

Maysoon Zayid: Whether you’re part of the Muslim community or not, if you appreciate good comedy, you’re gonna love our shows. I’ve done shows in Beirut, and I’ve done shows in Tennessee, and I can honestly say the audiences I’ve encountered have been equally enthusiastic on both sides of the globe. Masha’allah.

Natalia: I recently interviewed a Muslim American author, Dilara Hafiz, and one of the most interesting things we talked about was her idea that Islam has a great future in the United States, because it can thrive more alongside democracy. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Maysoon Zayid: First of all, I want to give respect to Dilara Hafiz. I think what she did is such a cool idea and I love the fact that she collaborated on it with her own children. That being said, I heartily disagree.

Being Muslim in America, I feel put in jeopardy. Growing up in Cliffside Park, New Jersey I never felt as if I was an “other,” and I definitely was never attacked for my religious beliefs. But, during the George W. Bush Presidency, I, as well as my nieces and nephews, started to feel overwhelmed by the pushing of his distortion of Christianity on our daily lives. I started feeling a lot less comfortable in my own country, because of this.

If, by the grace of God and the Diebold machines, we get a Democrat in office, Islam may have a slim chance of thriving, but if we end up with that dude McCain, I got two words for my fellow Muslims: “Move to Canada”. OK, sorry, that’s three words.

Natalia: Would you like to share more thoughts on this year’s election?

Maysoon Zayid: I am super-proud to say that I am actually going to be ATTENDING the Democratic National Convention, as both a delegate from the great state of New Jersey and a performer with my arab-boy-comic-harem, aka “Axis of Evil” and Dean Obeidallah.

I am so excited for this election because it means no more Dick and Bush (forgive me for not being halal, but those are their names), and I’m thrilled at the prospect of having either Hilary or Barack Obama for president (as long as Hilary shuts it about obliterating Iran).

Ideally I’d like to see them on the same ticket. But more than anything else, I want Bill back! I know he’s itchin’ to get back in the Middle East peace process/ circus. The one other thing I will say, is Michele Obama is frickin’ awesome.

Dean Obeidallah: This election has both inspired and distressed me. I have been inspired by that fact both a woman and an African-American have a realistic chance of being the next President. I am personally supporting Senator Obama, but I am confident that Senator Clinton would still be a far better president that John McCain.

I have been distressed by some people’s use of Barack Obama’s middle name “Hussein” and the word Muslim as a slur in this campaign. I believe strongly that most Americans will reject these attacks – which I view as not anti-Muslim, but as anti-American, since our country was founded on the principles of religious tolerance. Let’s hope that these haters’ voices will be drowned out by the voices of mainstream America.

Natalia: I have to ask, what’s the most ridiculous thing that’s anybody ever said to you in regards to your brand of comedy?

Tissa Hami: “Are you only doing this to get a husband?”

Dean Obeidallah: I have been asked several times: “Are you really Arab?” As if I’m going to make up an ethnic background.

Maysoon Zayid: People call me anti-Semitic all the time which is completely ludicrous, because first and foremost I am a Semite and definitely not self-hating. Also, of you look at my catalog of work I defy anyone to find an anti-Jewish comment. They don’t exist.

A funnier misconception that always shocks me is when people accuse me of pretending to be disabled. All I can think is wow. I must be the best actor ever, because I have never broken character, EVER. I always get a kick out of that one.

Natalia: And what’s the best thing?

Maysoon Zayid: The best comment I’ve ever gotten was when a really well known actress came up to me at the end of my show, and said “I never knew Palestinians had children!”… In that moment, I had introduced humanity to a people who often see Palestinians as being very far from human. So that moment really validated me.

I also absolutely love it when [people with cerebral palsy] come up to me and are like, this is dope. I can totally do whatever it is they were dreaming of, that they didn’t think they could do. That gives me the warm fuzzies except for when I remember that 98% of them wont make it.

Dean Obeidallah: By far the best comment I have heard is from people – and it’s usually from Middle Eastern-Americans and Muslim-Americans – who after a show, or in an email, say: “Thank you for doing the type of comedy that you do.” I like this so much because it means they appreciate that my comedy is not just intended to make people laugh, but also intended to challenge the way we are often defined in mainstream media and present us in a positive, likable, and accurate light. The support of our community has inspired all of us to continue talking about these issues.

Tissa Hami: When a young boy came up to me after a show and said, “You were the best comedian on the show, by far.” He didn’t tell me that I was the best female comedian on the show, or the best ethnic comedian, or the best female ethnic comedian, if you see what I mean. He just saw me as a comedian.

On a related note, check out my interview with “The Axis of Evil” comedians in Dubai. For more, please read the interview with Maysoon Zayid and Tissa Hami at Muslimah Media Watch.

Aron: I love it. It’s very, very opulent. My relatives in Jerusalem live humbly – no dirt floors or anything, but a very simple life, and this is a big contrast.

Maz: People here get our references.

Ahmed: Dubai is very modern. It’s a beacon of light, in this sense.

Maz: It’s not exactly perfect. But there are problems everywhere you go, right?

Natalia: So, I’ve done my research or so I hope. I think I can see what you guys have in common. The Middle Eastern heritage, the desire to challenge stereotypes, the dashing good looks. How are you different?

Aron: Different fashion sense. Ahmed is the one who wears the hats…

Maz: Are you writing this down? Because he’s joking.

Natalia: [momentarily feels like a dingbat] Let’s talk about racism against people of Middle Eastern origin in the United States.

Ahmed: It’s huge. There’s nothing funny about being Middle Eastern in America right now. I’ve been called a “sand-nigger,” etc. But comedy about stereotypes is like therapy, in that sense.

Maz: I think American co-exist well with each other, all things considered, but there are still issues of prejudice you can’t escape, which is why laughing with people is important, which is why this tour is important. It shatters stereotypes. Someone once told me: “I had no idea that you people even laughed.” We are portrayed as completely humourless and that’s not even the worst of it. You know, my mother has been told, “go back to your country, bitch.” She had an accent, and people with accents seem threatening. This is beside all the stuff you would get at school, as a kid. Kids are brutal. But there are always people who have it worse than you. Like the gas station attendants, think about the crap they get on a daily basis.

Ahmed: American racists are lazy too. Someone started targeting Sikhs after 9/11, because of the turbans. Sikhs aren’t even Muslim. It’s like the Joe DeRosa joke about American people thinking that Egypt has oil.

Natalia: What about relationship weirdness? Ever since I met my Arab boyfriend all of these well-meaning people have been telling me that I must be very oppressed, raped and beaten on a daily basis. Do the women in your lives get similar crap?

Maz: My wife is a very intelligent woman, she can block it all out if need be. Our tour manager, however, had people really worried for her when we took the comedy tour to the Middle East.

Ahmed: You’ve seen the show, so you know my Egyptian princess joke, right? Girls date you to piss off daddy, and because you’re dark and exotic. A girl says, “Make me your Egyptian princess.” I put a sheet over her head and tell her to be quiet.

Aron: Jokes are good if you know what you’re talking about. Someone close to my girlfriend offers to give me a pack of Camel cigarettes, and thinks it’s the funniest thing in the world. Or else we’ll talk about golfing, and suddenly there are these lame jokes being made about sand.

Maz: People base their assumptions about Middle Eastern men and relationships on the Sally Field film, “Not Without My Daughter.”

Natalia: People have mentioned it to me at least fifty times since I’ve met my boyfriend.

Maz: You should watch it. It really clues you in to the attitude.

Natalia: I watched in high school. It was actually during a lesson of U.S. history. Come to think of it, I’m not really sure how it tied in at all.

Ahmed: Speaking of attitude, we do radio shows, and sometimes it goes well, and sometimes it’s ridiculous. People have said things like, “Hey fellas, did you fly in on a magic carpet today?”

Natalia: You’re kidding.

Ahmed: Nope. You probably know that a ridiculous number of Americans don’t even have passports. The ignorance makes sense, in this light.

Maz: Here’s something we’ve noticed: the local news always juxtaposes a segment on our comedy tour with a story about angry Muslims chanting, preferably burning an American flag.

Aron: [in sugary newscaster voice] “Thirteen marines dead in Iraq. And on a lighter note…” And she goes on to talk about us.

Natalia: This is surreal. Let’s talk about happy, joyful things. Such as your comic influences – anyone in particular come to mind?

Aron: George Carlin.

Maz: When I was a kid, I loved Eddie Murphy. Career-wise, I think my biggest influence is Richard Pryor. You know what they say about Pryor – he could talk about setting himself on fire and make it hilarious. This is something I admire.

Natalia: Ok, some people find the next question annoying, but I have to ask: what are your thoughts on Election 2008 in the States?

Aron: Hillary.

Maz: I’m a Bill Clinton fan. We need to have him back in the White House in some capacity.

Aron: Bill Clinton probably wasted less sperm than Bush has wasted lives. Since we’re talking about politics, I have this to say: when we make fun of our current leadership, we are not selling out our country. We want to be proud of our country. But the Bush White House is a disaster. It should be OK to say that without being labeled a traitor.

Ahmed: Bush is an embarrassment. If I ran into him in a public place, I’d hand him some cash and ask him to stop ruining everything with his presence.

Natalia: Tell me more about taking the tour to the Middle East. How are things different?

Maz: This is the longest time we’ve been on the road, ever. We’re shooting a documentary when we’re not performing. The Showtime Arabia crew is also filming us.

Aron: In Jordan, King Abdullah came to our show. In Cairo, the audience was mostly working class. We did two shows in one day, and a total of 3,000 people saw us in 24 hours alone.

Ahmed: In Beirut, I think we ended up sold out before we even had a venue. There are all these popular Facebook groups set up over there; it’s amazing.

Maz: And we do interview after interview.

Natalia: Such as this one. Wherein I’m not even letting you chew your food.

Aron: You should just have some pizza.

Natalia: [thinking about how ridiculous she looks when she eats] No thanks.

Aron: [concerned auntie voice] You have to eat! The leftovers will just get thrown away otherwise.

Maz: No, no, write down that we gave it to the children.

Natalia: I don’t think there are any needy children at Mall of the Emirates in Dubai. At the very least, I don’t see any right now.

Ahmed: Dubai’s an amazing place, like I already said. There’s another joke I do that you’re probably familiar with, the one about conservative Muslim families hanging out next to European men in Speedos on the beach in Dubai.

Natalia: You know, I’m originally from Ukraine, and most men wear Speedos on the beach. They can look quite fetching on the right person.

Ahmed: Yeah, but on most people they look not so fetching.

Aron: Especially after you’ve just been in the cold water.

Maz: I can pull off a Speedo. For all you know, I’m wearing one right now.

Natalia: I’ll tell everyone you showed it to me.

Maz: Yes! Because you’re Ukrainian! And you get it!

Ahmed: OH MY GOD, is that Jack Nicholson over there?

[It isn’t Jack Nicholson, alas. Although in Dubai, anything seems possible at the moment. While we're gaping away we're told that it’s time for these gentlemen to do another sold-out show. Not to mention the fact that Maz’s Speedo probably needs to be adjusted beforehand.]