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	<title>Comments on: Brand Jordan Has Lost Its Way</title>
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	<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/</link>
	<description>where the Arab world thinks out loud</description>
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		<title>By: Nadine</title>
		<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/comment-page-1/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabcomment.com/?p=304#comment-560</guid>
		<description>Thanks Susu.  Since we&#039;re concerned about disinformation, allow me to clarify some not so accurate info in ur note:
- I did not at all specify who contributes and who&#039;s noisy.  I just say that both exist, and each of us should probably give it some thought when we feel compelled to get involved so that we each figure out how.
- I also do not refer to any group or any shellah as right or wrong.  It&#039;s really not about that - it&#039;s a lot bigger.  A lot.

The post above is not specific to Books, but it is the story that compelled me to write it.  Remember there are 60 outlets on the list that the gov shut down despite licensing them (or some at least).  And this country is facing a long road of challenges. Again, paragraph 2 above sums it - and that really is the point.

I think the lucky people are those who stand up for themselves.  I&#039;m not really into martyrdom - but it is noble of you that you are willing to stand up for others on principle.

The Spartans were a long time ago.  Maybe we&#039;re better off working on defining who we need to be for today and onwards.  Just trying to stick with the times, otherwise I get confused with the whole role play.

Finally, the debate about why we&#039;re having this debate/not having a debate is quite fascinating to me now.... something more to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Susu.  Since we&#8217;re concerned about disinformation, allow me to clarify some not so accurate info in ur note:<br />
- I did not at all specify who contributes and who&#8217;s noisy.  I just say that both exist, and each of us should probably give it some thought when we feel compelled to get involved so that we each figure out how.<br />
- I also do not refer to any group or any shellah as right or wrong.  It&#8217;s really not about that &#8211; it&#8217;s a lot bigger.  A lot.</p>
<p>The post above is not specific to Books, but it is the story that compelled me to write it.  Remember there are 60 outlets on the list that the gov shut down despite licensing them (or some at least).  And this country is facing a long road of challenges. Again, paragraph 2 above sums it &#8211; and that really is the point.</p>
<p>I think the lucky people are those who stand up for themselves.  I&#8217;m not really into martyrdom &#8211; but it is noble of you that you are willing to stand up for others on principle.</p>
<p>The Spartans were a long time ago.  Maybe we&#8217;re better off working on defining who we need to be for today and onwards.  Just trying to stick with the times, otherwise I get confused with the whole role play.</p>
<p>Finally, the debate about why we&#8217;re having this debate/not having a debate is quite fascinating to me now&#8230;. something more to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: Susu</title>
		<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/comment-page-1/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>Susu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabcomment.com/?p=304#comment-554</guid>
		<description>DEAR EDITOR: I forgot to address Nadine in my above post. Can you please add &quot;Dear Nadine,&quot;

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DEAR EDITOR: I forgot to address Nadine in my above post. Can you please add &#8220;Dear Nadine,&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Susu</title>
		<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/comment-page-1/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>Susu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabcomment.com/?p=304#comment-553</guid>
		<description>So long as the contributions are honest, they are welcome. When they turn dishonest, they are noise. Much of what has been offered in defense of Books@Cafe is disinformation.

For you to describe your group&#039;s input as contributions and others&#039; as noise speaks volume to your values and respect for views that differ from yours. 

I have often read that in Jordan there are no reformers or truths. there are special interest groups or Shellah as we call them. you represent one Shella and your version of the &quot;truth&quot; or contributions as you call them is nothing more than your way of articulating the interests of your Shellah. 

This debate IS a sample of Jordan&#039;s problems: Your Jordan, Your Way, Or Bust. 

Some of the most intolerant and indifferent and isolated people in Jordan today are part of your Shellah. 

Lucky for you some of us are still willing to stand up for you on principle alone. If we judge you by your rotten attitudes, you will be a lonely 150. And you ain&#039;t no Spartans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So long as the contributions are honest, they are welcome. When they turn dishonest, they are noise. Much of what has been offered in defense of Books@Cafe is disinformation.</p>
<p>For you to describe your group&#8217;s input as contributions and others&#8217; as noise speaks volume to your values and respect for views that differ from yours. </p>
<p>I have often read that in Jordan there are no reformers or truths. there are special interest groups or Shellah as we call them. you represent one Shella and your version of the &#8220;truth&#8221; or contributions as you call them is nothing more than your way of articulating the interests of your Shellah. </p>
<p>This debate IS a sample of Jordan&#8217;s problems: Your Jordan, Your Way, Or Bust. </p>
<p>Some of the most intolerant and indifferent and isolated people in Jordan today are part of your Shellah. </p>
<p>Lucky for you some of us are still willing to stand up for you on principle alone. If we judge you by your rotten attitudes, you will be a lonely 150. And you ain&#8217;t no Spartans.</p>
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		<title>By: Nadine</title>
		<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/comment-page-1/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Nadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 06:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabcomment.com/?p=304#comment-551</guid>
		<description>Thanks for reading and sharing your view Karima.  Paragraph 2 above is the all encompassing mascot that should be addressed to save Jordan&#039;s soul.

The Books@Cafe subculture and community chose to step up and tell their story. 150 passionate voices matter. Some were more focused and articulate than others.  But they spoke up.

Very few voices unique are heard.  When they are, the spectators want to muffle them, and then there&#039;s silence coz there&#039;s nothing better to replace those voices with - and everyone then dabbles around in nothingness. Yet another trait that plagues the progress of this community.

Contribution and noise can both fill a void - but they are very different in impact.

One should probably ask his/herself regularly:  Do I want to be noisy, or do I want to be a contribution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for reading and sharing your view Karima.  Paragraph 2 above is the all encompassing mascot that should be addressed to save Jordan&#8217;s soul.</p>
<p>The Books@Cafe subculture and community chose to step up and tell their story. 150 passionate voices matter. Some were more focused and articulate than others.  But they spoke up.</p>
<p>Very few voices unique are heard.  When they are, the spectators want to muffle them, and then there&#8217;s silence coz there&#8217;s nothing better to replace those voices with &#8211; and everyone then dabbles around in nothingness. Yet another trait that plagues the progress of this community.</p>
<p>Contribution and noise can both fill a void &#8211; but they are very different in impact.</p>
<p>One should probably ask his/herself regularly:  Do I want to be noisy, or do I want to be a contribution?</p>
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		<title>By: Karima</title>
		<link>http://arabcomment.com/2008/brand-jordan-has-lost-its-way/comment-page-1/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>Karima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://arabcomment.com/?p=304#comment-548</guid>
		<description>Want to know why the Jordan Brand is in need of an overhaul, just look at the Books@Cafe debate. This is the most dishonest discourse I have every seen by many self-styled defenders of liberal values. 

The fight for Books@cafe is more about brand loyalty then religious and personal freedoms. Fact is, the most dishonest aspect of this debate is that while the government shuttered a number of alcohol-serving establishments they shuttered others who are not alcohol serving. Better yet, other alcohol serving establishments are still open and they are serving alcohol in ramada. 

Someone is lying. 


the disturbing refusal to even acknowledge the above facts speaks volume to the twisted nature of this camping. 

Someone remarked on one of the blogs that this is a camping by loyal customers of Books@Cafe who had their daily routine interrupted. So they threw a tantrum. But since it would look silly to bitch about having your favorite cafe being shuttered, they turned it into a freedom of religion issue. Except that, and for the 1000th time, you can still walk into dozens of establishments, such as the Sheraton Amman, in Ramadan and drink to your heart&#039;s content. 

So why the deception by Books@Cafe loyalists? 

Was Books@cafe treated unjustly? of course. Did the government shut down all shops selling alcohol. No. Could this be a classic government corruption case where Books@Cafe did not pay off the inspector? yes. Could this be a case of an unfair competitor who belongs to a powerful Jordanian tribe (some of whom are deeply corrupt and above the laws of Jordan)? yes. 

there are many problems with Jordan. you picked the wrong mascot to cheer the troops who want to save Jordan&#039;s soul. 

Worse yet, the dishonesty by which the Books@Cafe camping was waged is part and parcel of this culture of dishonesty, stagnation, and confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Want to know why the Jordan Brand is in need of an overhaul, just look at the Books@Cafe debate. This is the most dishonest discourse I have every seen by many self-styled defenders of liberal values. </p>
<p>The fight for Books@cafe is more about brand loyalty then religious and personal freedoms. Fact is, the most dishonest aspect of this debate is that while the government shuttered a number of alcohol-serving establishments they shuttered others who are not alcohol serving. Better yet, other alcohol serving establishments are still open and they are serving alcohol in ramada. </p>
<p>Someone is lying. </p>
<p>the disturbing refusal to even acknowledge the above facts speaks volume to the twisted nature of this camping. </p>
<p>Someone remarked on one of the blogs that this is a camping by loyal customers of Books@Cafe who had their daily routine interrupted. So they threw a tantrum. But since it would look silly to bitch about having your favorite cafe being shuttered, they turned it into a freedom of religion issue. Except that, and for the 1000th time, you can still walk into dozens of establishments, such as the Sheraton Amman, in Ramadan and drink to your heart&#8217;s content. </p>
<p>So why the deception by Books@Cafe loyalists? </p>
<p>Was Books@cafe treated unjustly? of course. Did the government shut down all shops selling alcohol. No. Could this be a classic government corruption case where Books@Cafe did not pay off the inspector? yes. Could this be a case of an unfair competitor who belongs to a powerful Jordanian tribe (some of whom are deeply corrupt and above the laws of Jordan)? yes. </p>
<p>there are many problems with Jordan. you picked the wrong mascot to cheer the troops who want to save Jordan&#8217;s soul. </p>
<p>Worse yet, the dishonesty by which the Books@Cafe camping was waged is part and parcel of this culture of dishonesty, stagnation, and confusion.</p>
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